astro picture for the day/ fear,evasive language in Star Trek - demonizing

NGC 1672: Barred Spiral Galaxy from Hubble
Image Credit: Hubble Legacy Archive, NASA, ESA; Processing & Copyright: Daniel Nobre

In a latest chapter of my findings on fear, irrationality, and evasive langauge/logic, I've found this in Star Trek.  I'm going to back up though for those who maybe seeing this for the first time.

I found the following quote in a book "The Ancient Engineers" by l. sprague de camp

 Bishop of Constantinople Gregorius of Nyssa noticed this type of thinking and complained,

"People swarm everywhere, talking of incomprehensible matters, in hovels, streets and square, marketplaces, and crossroads. When I ask how many oboloi I have to pay, they answer with hairsplitting arguments about the born and the unborn. If I inquire the price of bread, I am told that the father is greater than the son. I call a servant to tell me whether my bath is ready; he rejoins that the son was created out of nothing."

I'm tempted to say that a quote from the "The Day the Earth Stood Still' back in the 1950s maybe made me take this quote which goes back to the 400 A.D. more seriously.  It was "I am concerned when people substitute fear for reason." A lot of people mention fear; but, how many really understand it?  I noted the quote above from the "Ancient Engineers", and started noticing it in both fiction and real life situations.  I've made many blog posts about this.  Maybe, almost surprisingly, I haven't made a blog post about fear and evasive language in Star Trek!

I'll link to my previous blog posts about fear and evasive language in the replies section.  So, getting onto the Star Trek examples I've found.

The two Star Trek movies that I found examples of this are "The Search for Spock" and "The Voyage Home." 

In the "Search for Spock", Klingon Commander Kruge finds a young Vulcan Spock, a Vulcan woman scientist, Saavik, and Captain Kirk's son on the Genesis planet.  Klingon Commander Kruge demands, not just asks, but demands the secrets to the Genesis torpedo.  Saavik begins with the Genesis experiment is a failure. But, the Klingon Commander Kruge is not interested in the Genesis device for peace, he's interested in it for military purposes. He tells Saavik, "you will tell me the secrets to the Genesis device."  Saavik says "I have no such knowledge."  

Saavik is actually being evasive and fearful here; but, more empathetic.  See my post about fear and empathy in the replies section.

Klingon Commander Kruge then replies, "then I hope pain is something you enjoy."  Klingon Commander Kruge then beams up to his ship when he hears a Federation Starship has entered the solar system space.  After some initial shots between them, Captain Kirk and Commander Kruge have this exchange.  

Captain Kirk says, "you're presence here is an act of war."  For which the Klingon Commander Kruge replies, "do not lecture me about treatise. the Star Trek Federation are criminals.  He then lets Captain Kirk no that he has prisoners on the Genesis planet.  He says he will execute them as "enemies of intergalactic peace."

I wasn't able to find a youtube of the first two examples, so I had to describe them.  This last example has Klingon Commander Kruge beaming down to wrestle the Genesis 'torpedo" knowledge out of Captain Kirk, if he can.

Klingon Commander Kruge beams up everyone as prisoners except Captain Kirk.  Captain Kirk says "you should beam up the Vulcan boy(young, regenerated Spock, due to the Genesis planets magic).  Commander Kruge says refuses.  Captain Kirk asks why, for which Kruge says "because you wish it." Then, Kruge and Captain Kirk go back and forth on giving the knowledge of Genesis "Torpedo" for beaming up Spock. Captain Kirk then points out that the Genesis experiment is a failure; saying, "you fool, look around you."  Kruge says "exhilerating, yes."  Captain Kirk says, "if we don't help each other, we'll both die here."  Kruge replies "then that's exactly what will happen!"  At that point, reason is out the door, and Captain Kirk has to fight him physically.

This last example is in the next Star Trek movie 'the Voyage Home."  To tie in with "the Search for Spock" a Klingon embassador goes to the Federation about the events that happened at the Genesis planet. The Klingon embassador begins by calling Captain Kirk the devil, renegade, and terrorist.  He's taking advantage of the fact that Captain Kirk did break some rules to go and rescue Spock. He calls the killing of Commander Kruge "murder" whether he understood the events that happened between Commander Kruge and Captain Kirk.  The embassador then portrays the development of the Genesis creation as developing a weapon and test detonated by Captain Kirk on a secret base, from which they can use to strike against the Klingons!

Spocks father comes in to set him straight.  Saying the Genesis device was created to create life bearing worlds. And that the embassador just spun the context around to make it seem a weapon, to get rid of an inconvenient Federation Captain Kirk.  The embassador says Spocks father is biased because his son was saved by Captain Kirk.

Overall, what we see here is everything is demonized.  Truth is demonized, some mistakes, whether by mistake or on purpose by Captain Kirk, are taken advantage of to further demonize Captain Kirk.

astro picture for the day/ Is Genesis History, fear, evasive language and Christian rage!

Image Credit: Hubble, NASA, ESA; Processing & License: Judy Schmidt

First, I thought I'd show my replies to this video,

Firstly, it's interesting that he starts out with the Mt St. Helen's eruption as an example of a catastrophic change. Well yes, there's these eruptions But, it takes time to build up the energies to cause such things. The bigger the bang, the more time, the more rare, the longer time it takes to make such sudden changes. Mt St. Helen's erupts on a scale of two thousand years or so. Supervolcanies like yellowstone, erupts on hundreds of thousands of years. And, then, there's these "traps" that erupt on the scale of millions of years. The same thing happens with meteor and asteroid/comet collisions. Small micron size meteors evaporate in the Earth's atmosphere all the time. Meteors that come down and hit the earth happen a lot less often. Most people never see such an event in their lives. From this wiki - "steroids with a 1 km (0.62 mi) diameter strike Earth every 500,000 years on average.[17] Large collisions – with 5 km (3 mi) objects – happen approximately once every twenty million years" 

- Let's assume there was this global flood that cut open the Grand Canyon and exposed all those layers. Those layers are uncountable. I can't find anybody who has counted every layer that is exposed in the Grand Canyon. But, since your saying the Biblical flood exposed those layers, then those uncountable layers were already there.

And those layers are uncountable, they are crushed sediment. They formed by a gradual process for which weight of later layers crushed into rock And, according to your Biblical flood story/theory, exposed all those layers . . . that were already there.  

And, where did all this water go? That's a lot of water. The Oceans are not that deep.

What's more, a Global flood would have caused a far larger canyon. Look at the canyon on Mars, that's a far larger canyon. But a global flood as described in the Bible would have carved not just a far larger than Mars canyon, but masny more; why one small canyon in Arizona?

-  Genesis says the plants/animals comes before man , Genesis 1:11 and 1:25. . . . then, in Genesis 2, man is created before animals (genesis 2:7), plants, animals, and woman after! (gen 2:8-9), and 2:19, and then women after all this (gen 2:22)- More, Genesis 1 makes animals out of the waters (gen 1:20), while in Genesis 2) god created animals and life out of the ground (gen 2:19)- According to Genesis 1, god separated light from the darkness on the first day( gen 1:4, 5), and on in Genesis 2 ( gen 1:16, 18-19  

the Biblical flood contradictions - Genesis 6:19 says bring on a pair of every kind, while Gen 7:2 says bring seven. . . . . likewise, Noah brings one pair of birds(Noah didn't bring in two of each kind of animal, he choose one pair of birds out of hundreds of thousandss - Gen 6:20), and then in Gen 7:3, brings 7 kinds of birds) . . . in one tradition, God lets rain fall of 40 days (gen 7:12), while in Genesis 7:24 let it rain for 150 days.  

- Either way, that's a lot of rain, to cover the mountain tops in a global flood. Where did all the water go? The oceans were already there; and the Oceans are not that deep to contain that much water.

See my Gospel of Truth - for the primary source confirmed facts about the Bible, both in and outside of the Bible - I'm taking out the link to my Gospel of Truth, which my readers here on my "Jacob Bronowski "Scientific Humanism" blog already know about, or those who see this should be able to find pretty quickly.

- And, oh yes, not just the layers, exposed by the Biblical flood(according to the Biblical flood story) were already there, but the the oil reserves in the Earth, and the coal are chemically changed over billions of years from life that dies and then gets turned into fossil fuels, oil, and coal.

More stuff I didn't mention about the Global flood below, is the ice caps, and the evidence for glaciers cutting stone. This took ice a mile high grinding very slowly. This ice would not be there if there was a Global flood. Plus, the ice is layered, and these layers come from the yearly seasons. If there was a Global flood, you wouldn't have these ancient glacier and polar cap ice. And, you wouldn't have had ice ages.

How did Humans get from EurAsia to the America after this flood? Indeed, how did all the animals get to the Americas, if the Earth was only six thousand years old, not to mention after this Biblical flood? You'd have to have an ice age . . . which is not reported by your bible or any ancient written sources.

-  What's more, the fossils on top of mountains comes from mountain building which comes from plate tectonics. We have evidence of how the plate tectonics move continents over hundreds of millions of years by means of vulcaniism. There's undersea ridges that are formed by a process of volcanism. And, they can be dated by magnetic pole reversals. And, we have them dated. I've posted here - link to my post of all the Planet Earth videos posted at Skeptics Annotated Bible

 

A great 1986 Planet Earth sereis. The first episode shows this.

-  The cambrain explosion! Yes, lets assume your god made the cambrain explosion. Do you know what the cambrian explosion is? It's a bunch of natural life experiments that didn't work. The few body plans that make up the phylum today are all that is left. thousands of other body plans went extinct. Hence, if your god did this, then he made thousands of mistakes.! But, no, this is proof that life forms by natural process experiments, and the best forms survived.

-  Then they want to say because our science can't explain everything, then god exists. This is their problem with evolution, with the Big Bang theory. Theuy say "god did it", and if something bad happens, they say "god works in mysterious ways." In the end, solve the mathematical equations of that can solve the quantum gravity problem. Solve the mathematics of protein folding. . . . by the "god did it" equation. Solve any mathematical equation by saying "god did it."

And, oh yes, mathematical scientists have made inroads to solving the mathematical equations of life - it's called chaos theory. And, Stuart Kauffman has shown the chemical version of chaos theory. He shows that life self-assembles with enough diversity of chemical reactions which make one another. And, this is what a bacterium is.  

The whole fossil record thing is where I don't really know - i leave that to this guy's presentation -

Foundational Falsehood of Creationism - which gets a pretty good presentation of the fossil evidence for evolution

- Most of the replies were rage replies, which are more proof of evasive language and violence.  I'll get to those in a moment; but, first, I thought I'd post some replies to one Christian who was able to try and have a constructive debate. Her concerns were about the Genesis contradictions.  For which I felt oblige to elaborate more points not originally pointed out by me.  So, I'll post those now,

I'm going to say there's no contradiction in teh 150 and 40 days. However, there's more stuff not mentioned about how we know these are two separate stories . . . combined. The literal translation of God is Elohim - a canaanite god. Elohim has a goddess wife Asherah, which the writers of the Old Testament spends pretty much the whole time trying to erase from history. Each chapter of Kings is either, the King is good because he gets rid of Asherah, or he's bad and going to hell because he brings back the Asherah.

- So, now getting to the Christian rage comments . . . these are their answers to the constructive criticisms from me . . . all fear and evasive language. This is why they believe; to be snotty. They don't care about facts/logic. They believe . . . to shit on reason.

nelson

1 year ago

What an arrogant commentator. You don't know all things astronomy."

The Nelson quote of "arrogant commentator" is the same as the John Milton's "Dream not of other worlds."

 John Milton in his "Paradise Lost", book VIII,

"Sollicit not thy thoughts with matters hid,
Leave them to God above, him serve and feare;
Of other creatures, as him pleases best,
Whatever plac't, let him dispose: joy thou
In what he gives to thee, this Paradise
And thy fair Eve: Heav'n is for thee too high
To know what passes there; be lowlie wise:
Think onely what concernes thee and they being;
Dream not of other Worlds."

Well, this first quote is in this youtube of "The Great Astronomers - Ptolemy." The next few are from interacting with the above "is Genesis History"

- Anthony Mullins

I'm sick of your comments. Every time I see a reply under your comment, surprise, surprise, it's you again. Shut up, no ones listening to you anyway! Explain artefacts discovered in coal deposits that are billions of years old. You're so brainwashed by your world view, not even a brain transplant would change your view.

Ed Carson

the impractical transhumanist yeah right 

Remain Humble This is about wrongly interpreted data and wrong conclusions that we have been seeing in scientific papers for years now. Please stop exposing your petty issues with hating God and obviously limited atheistic explanations. - the last three quotes are people who didn't want me showing that "if there was a flood, then all it did was expose what was already there; which reveals far older than 6000 years of layers."  - I've posted already many posts about fear and evasive language.  I'll try to collect those links/references in the replies section of this post.